Accessibility / Switch Control support (eg, for Wunderlinq)
Quote from pkleynjan on 22.06.2020, 14:16Hi Guido, I have been trying out different integration scenarios for my Wunderlinq, apart from the (very practical) direct WQ support as provided by Scenic.
In the WQ forum someone suggested using the Switch Control options that iOS offers. https://groups.google.com/a/blackboxembedded.com/forum/#!topic/wlq-users/nXMHL47Aw-8
This works a treat and has the advantantage that I can control my entire iPhone from the wheel. Everything, that is, *except* Scenic -- even if I disable the WQ support in Scenic. Using the wheel for Scenic during nav is still my preferred option, but you can see where I am going with this. 🙂
I realize this is a "biggie" to ask and probably more of a toolkit/library feature -- but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of this integration axis. Maybe one for the long-term road map... Cheers, -Peter
Hi Guido, I have been trying out different integration scenarios for my Wunderlinq, apart from the (very practical) direct WQ support as provided by Scenic.
In the WQ forum someone suggested using the Switch Control options that iOS offers. https://groups.google.com/a/blackboxembedded.com/forum/#!topic/wlq-users/nXMHL47Aw-8
This works a treat and has the advantantage that I can control my entire iPhone from the wheel. Everything, that is, *except* Scenic -- even if I disable the WQ support in Scenic. Using the wheel for Scenic during nav is still my preferred option, but you can see where I am going with this. 🙂
I realize this is a "biggie" to ask and probably more of a toolkit/library feature -- but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of this integration axis. Maybe one for the long-term road map... Cheers, -Peter
Quote from Guido on 22.06.2020, 14:56Hi Peter,
Understand what you are saying. I think it's 'normal' that the accessibility function for the wheel don't work with Scenic when you have 'I have a WunderLINQ' switched on. I assume what this does is 'catch' all the wunderlinq inputs before they are caught by 'switch control'.
I am a bit surprised that you can't use the WQ with Scenic through the 'switch controls' when you have 'I have a WunderLINQ' turned off. Perhaps you could try closing Scenic from the app switcher after turning this off and then reopening it.
In any case, it's going to be one or the other I am afraid. So, either you have the wunderlinq control the accessibility switch control OR you have it control Scenic apps. I wonder... can you control the WunderLINQ app when you have 'switch control' activated?
On another note... I don't know what other apps you would like to be able to control during riding. There are some limited options available through Scenic and the Shortcuts app that perhaps might be enough for your use case? Specifically have a look at these three things, which, together might be enough (or not 🙂)
- In the navigation menu, you can add two shortcuts to the shortcuts app. (Scenic > Settings > Navigation Menu)
- The music control buttons in the navigation menu can control any music app, not just the music app. (Scenic > Settings > Navigation Menu)
- You can open the WunderLINQ app from Scenic. (Scenic > Settings > WunderLINQ > I have a WunderLINQ ON > Change shortcut for one of the wheel movements.
Hi Peter,
Understand what you are saying. I think it's 'normal' that the accessibility function for the wheel don't work with Scenic when you have 'I have a WunderLINQ' switched on. I assume what this does is 'catch' all the wunderlinq inputs before they are caught by 'switch control'.
I am a bit surprised that you can't use the WQ with Scenic through the 'switch controls' when you have 'I have a WunderLINQ' turned off. Perhaps you could try closing Scenic from the app switcher after turning this off and then reopening it.
In any case, it's going to be one or the other I am afraid. So, either you have the wunderlinq control the accessibility switch control OR you have it control Scenic apps. I wonder... can you control the WunderLINQ app when you have 'switch control' activated?
On another note... I don't know what other apps you would like to be able to control during riding. There are some limited options available through Scenic and the Shortcuts app that perhaps might be enough for your use case? Specifically have a look at these three things, which, together might be enough (or not 🙂)
- In the navigation menu, you can add two shortcuts to the shortcuts app. (Scenic > Settings > Navigation Menu)
- The music control buttons in the navigation menu can control any music app, not just the music app. (Scenic > Settings > Navigation Menu)
- You can open the WunderLINQ app from Scenic. (Scenic > Settings > WunderLINQ > I have a WunderLINQ ON > Change shortcut for one of the wheel movements.
Quote from pkleynjan on 23.06.2020, 03:53Wow Guido, are you really working every waking minute? 😉 To answer your questions:
- Using Switch Control with Scenic, the main limitations are (a) you can open the on-screen menu while navigating but the only buttons that can be clicked are Skip Next Via and Close; and (b) in general non-nav mode, you can't operate the main "scroll wheel" menu at the bottom of the screen.
- I have tried it with "I have a WunderlinQ" enabled and disabled; restarted the Scenic app -- no difference.
- The WunderlinQ app has similar limitations; the top level navigation (top of the screen) works, but the "Quick tasks" is inaccessible.
- For comparison, I've tried Sygic through switch control and while that does properly support Switch Control, using it is a *lot* of work, eg zooming out takes some six clicks in the proper order for every "-"...
I guess this is all just background info -- or background noise, if you will. For me only item 1a above would have any real value: operating the Scenic on-screen navigating menu through Switch Control.
You're absolutely justified in challenging my use case, by the way. If I remember to set up Spotify with the proper playlist and to start Flitsmeister before riding (and no one calls me during the ride), Scenic gives me all the control I need. Thanks again for terrific support.
Wow Guido, are you really working every waking minute? 😉 To answer your questions:
- Using Switch Control with Scenic, the main limitations are (a) you can open the on-screen menu while navigating but the only buttons that can be clicked are Skip Next Via and Close; and (b) in general non-nav mode, you can't operate the main "scroll wheel" menu at the bottom of the screen.
- I have tried it with "I have a WunderlinQ" enabled and disabled; restarted the Scenic app -- no difference.
- The WunderlinQ app has similar limitations; the top level navigation (top of the screen) works, but the "Quick tasks" is inaccessible.
- For comparison, I've tried Sygic through switch control and while that does properly support Switch Control, using it is a *lot* of work, eg zooming out takes some six clicks in the proper order for every "-"...
I guess this is all just background info -- or background noise, if you will. For me only item 1a above would have any real value: operating the Scenic on-screen navigating menu through Switch Control.
You're absolutely justified in challenging my use case, by the way. If I remember to set up Spotify with the proper playlist and to start Flitsmeister before riding (and no one calls me during the ride), Scenic gives me all the control I need. Thanks again for terrific support.
Quote from Guido on 23.06.2020, 06:24Ok. I believe we’re dealing with a technical limitation here in that case. Some wheel inputs are caught by the ‘switch control’ function, and not passed on to Scenic. So that’s why you can only do few movements in the navigation menu when ‘switch control’ is enabled. This theory is strengthened by the fact that the WunderLINQ app has similar behaviour.
the reason why you can’t operate the scroll wheel (i call it the dashboard) with the WunderLINQ , is that I didn’t program that to work with the Wunderlinq. The functions that are operable with the wheel are limited to function you would need while actually riding. So, simple functions that won’t take too much of your attention. For more complicated functions you need to stop anyway (for safetybreasons) and in that case you can take of your gloves too. That’s the idea anyway 🙂.
You could create a shortcut to start Spotify with the right playlist, and another shortcut to start Flitsmeister. And then link those shortcuts to the shortcut buttons in the navigation menu. That only leaves phone calls. Perhaps the ‘do not disturb while driving‘ iOS feature can help out with that 😜
Ok. I believe we’re dealing with a technical limitation here in that case. Some wheel inputs are caught by the ‘switch control’ function, and not passed on to Scenic. So that’s why you can only do few movements in the navigation menu when ‘switch control’ is enabled. This theory is strengthened by the fact that the WunderLINQ app has similar behaviour.
the reason why you can’t operate the scroll wheel (i call it the dashboard) with the WunderLINQ , is that I didn’t program that to work with the Wunderlinq. The functions that are operable with the wheel are limited to function you would need while actually riding. So, simple functions that won’t take too much of your attention. For more complicated functions you need to stop anyway (for safetybreasons) and in that case you can take of your gloves too. That’s the idea anyway 🙂.
You could create a shortcut to start Spotify with the right playlist, and another shortcut to start Flitsmeister. And then link those shortcuts to the shortcut buttons in the navigation menu. That only leaves phone calls. Perhaps the ‘do not disturb while driving‘ iOS feature can help out with that 😜
Quote from Guido on 23.06.2020, 06:27Btw have you seen this video? https://scenic.app/knowledge-base/wunderlinq-integration/
Ot shows you exactly what can be controlled with the WunderLINQ in scenic.
Btw have you seen this video? https://scenic.app/knowledge-base/wunderlinq-integration/
Ot shows you exactly what can be controlled with the WunderLINQ in scenic.
Quote from pkleynjan on 23.06.2020, 06:59> Btw have you seen this video? https://scenic.app/knowledge-base/wunderlinq-integration/
Of course. Seen it and bought the t-shirt as well. 🙂
> You could create a shortcut to start Spotify with the right playlist, and another shortcut to start Flitsmeister.
Yes, that would be wonderful. I don't know if you have tried this, but on my iOS 13.5 iPhone I can only create shortcuts for a *very* limited number of mostly useless (~Apple) apps. No Spotify, no FM, etc. Certainly not a Scenic issue, though.
Anyway, no worries. I am all set for touring with Scenic+WunderlinQ+MRA as it is.
Cheers again, -Peter
> Btw have you seen this video? https://scenic.app/knowledge-base/wunderlinq-integration/
Of course. Seen it and bought the t-shirt as well. 🙂
> You could create a shortcut to start Spotify with the right playlist, and another shortcut to start Flitsmeister.
Yes, that would be wonderful. I don't know if you have tried this, but on my iOS 13.5 iPhone I can only create shortcuts for a *very* limited number of mostly useless (~Apple) apps. No Spotify, no FM, etc. Certainly not a Scenic issue, though.
Anyway, no worries. I am all set for touring with Scenic+WunderlinQ+MRA as it is.
Cheers again, -Peter
Quote from Guido on 23.06.2020, 07:11Oh wow. You’re right. I would have expected at least Spotify to have offered some shortcut options. But you’re right 😞
Oh wow. You’re right. I would have expected at least Spotify to have offered some shortcut options. But you’re right 😞
Quote from pkleynjan on 28.06.2020, 06:49Guido, two more details re Shortcuts and Scenic.
(1) Once a Shortcut has been assigned, the WQ right-long-press in Scenic ("Reserved') seems to trigger the Shortcuts app as well as the nav menu. I can see the Shortcuts app pop up and disappear every time I do a right-long-press.
(2) It's seems to be difficult to totally remove the link to shortcuts, once saved. I entered and saved an an empty string in settings -> navigation -> shortcut 1. That eventually resulted in Shortcut "Not set" but the Shortcuts app still kept popping up.
Restarting the phone did not help. In the end I solved both problems by deleting and reinstalling Scenic. Given that you lose your offline maps in that process, I think we'd all appreciate a reliable way to clear Shortcuts from the Scenic config. 🙂 Cheers, -Peter
Btw: of course I had Switch control turned off during the above, and the WQ app was not running.
Guido, two more details re Shortcuts and Scenic.
(1) Once a Shortcut has been assigned, the WQ right-long-press in Scenic ("Reserved') seems to trigger the Shortcuts app as well as the nav menu. I can see the Shortcuts app pop up and disappear every time I do a right-long-press.
(2) It's seems to be difficult to totally remove the link to shortcuts, once saved. I entered and saved an an empty string in settings -> navigation -> shortcut 1. That eventually resulted in Shortcut "Not set" but the Shortcuts app still kept popping up.
Restarting the phone did not help. In the end I solved both problems by deleting and reinstalling Scenic. Given that you lose your offline maps in that process, I think we'd all appreciate a reliable way to clear Shortcuts from the Scenic config. 🙂 Cheers, -Peter
Btw: of course I had Switch control turned off during the above, and the WQ app was not running.
Quote from Guido on 28.06.2020, 13:54Thanks for the detailed feedback Peter. I'll have a look at both issues and have them fixed for next update.
Thanks for the detailed feedback Peter. I'll have a look at both issues and have them fixed for next update.
Quote from Guido on 08.09.2020, 04:42Hi Peter,
Sorry for my very late response to this. I only now got the time to look into this more deeply. I was wondering if the shortcuts app showing even without shortcuts defined in the setting menu, could be the result of you having selected the "All Media Apps" option for Playback Controls (Settings > Navigation Menu). You see, this "All Media Apps" option works through the shortcuts app too. It will open the shortcuts app briefly to skip to the next or previous item in 'now playing' list. This, in combination with the defined WunderLINQ wheel actions in Settings > WunderLINQ could result in the behaviour you describe above. Could you let me know if this could perhaps be the case? Best way to test is to change Playback Controls to 'Apple Music' and see if the shortcuts app still opens.
Cheers,
Guido
Hi Peter,
Sorry for my very late response to this. I only now got the time to look into this more deeply. I was wondering if the shortcuts app showing even without shortcuts defined in the setting menu, could be the result of you having selected the "All Media Apps" option for Playback Controls (Settings > Navigation Menu). You see, this "All Media Apps" option works through the shortcuts app too. It will open the shortcuts app briefly to skip to the next or previous item in 'now playing' list. This, in combination with the defined WunderLINQ wheel actions in Settings > WunderLINQ could result in the behaviour you describe above. Could you let me know if this could perhaps be the case? Best way to test is to change Playback Controls to 'Apple Music' and see if the shortcuts app still opens.
Cheers,
Guido
