Myrouteapp to Scenic
Quote from pkleynjan on 31.05.2020, 06:15I am a big fan of Myroute-app (MRA) for route preparation. In terms of actual navigation and user interface while on my bike, Scenic is way ahead though. The Wunderlinq interface is also sweet.
Unfortunately I have some difficulty getting the two to work together. Please note, getting the GPX into Scenic is not the problem! So what is?
Ideally, I'd prepare a route on MRA which I would then convert to a track and export to Scenic. Hoping that Scenic would (a) stick to the track as close as possible and (b) provide turn-by-turn instructions.
Can anyone (@guidomm?) provide a how-to? What's the best way to do this? Which underlying routing map in MRA would give the best results? Export as route or track?
The main issues: 1. In mapping an MRA-track to a Scenic route, Scenic will skip certain sections which *are* explicitly in the MRA source. I.e. the blue line deviates from the route as generated by Scenic. These are perfectly valid roads that are being skipped. Given that the source track has >1,000 waypoints I dont' see why Scenic would do this. 2. Importing a track causes any number of errored waypoints which Scenic allows to "fix".
I have been doing the above between MRA and my Tomtom Rider 40 for three years now, but I had really hoped that I'd be able to switch to my iPhone+Scenic by now. I would just very much like to know how! 🙂
I am a big fan of Myroute-app (MRA) for route preparation. In terms of actual navigation and user interface while on my bike, Scenic is way ahead though. The Wunderlinq interface is also sweet.
Unfortunately I have some difficulty getting the two to work together. Please note, getting the GPX into Scenic is not the problem! So what is?
Ideally, I'd prepare a route on MRA which I would then convert to a track and export to Scenic. Hoping that Scenic would (a) stick to the track as close as possible and (b) provide turn-by-turn instructions.
Can anyone (@guidomm?) provide a how-to? What's the best way to do this? Which underlying routing map in MRA would give the best results? Export as route or track?
The main issues: 1. In mapping an MRA-track to a Scenic route, Scenic will skip certain sections which *are* explicitly in the MRA source. I.e. the blue line deviates from the route as generated by Scenic. These are perfectly valid roads that are being skipped. Given that the source track has >1,000 waypoints I dont' see why Scenic would do this. 2. Importing a track causes any number of errored waypoints which Scenic allows to "fix".
I have been doing the above between MRA and my Tomtom Rider 40 for three years now, but I had really hoped that I'd be able to switch to my iPhone+Scenic by now. I would just very much like to know how! 🙂
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Quote from Guido on 31.05.2020, 07:13Hi there,
I understand your question.
First of all, what maps to use in MRA -> Open Street Maps. Scenic’s map provider also uses OSM as starting point.
Then, import routes or tracks. It depends. 🙂
Advantage of routes is that Scenic will use the exact route points as you defined them in MRA. This is useful if those route points are actual stops like a restaurant or hotel or gas station. Disadvantage of route is that you are not sure Scenic will calculate the same route between the points (Scenic has a different routing engine/algorithm than MRA and GPX files do not contain info about what routing mode you chose in MRA). Additionally you do not have the blue line when importing a route so it will be more difficult to notice discrepancies between Scenic route and MRA route.
Tracks have the advantage that you see the blue line (exact line indicating route as designed in MRA) so it’s very easy to notice discrepancies (like in your screenshot). But you loose your route points set in MRA.
The reason why these discrepancies happen has to do with Scenic picking key point along the track to feed to the routing engine. This ‘picking’ is done by an algorithm looking at the bends in blue line. For more info on that have a look at this support article and also make sure to visit the blog article that is mentioned in the first point.Now, about your screenshot, I happen to know this area. I have ridden there a few times when I was still living in Amsterdam. I know that the map data is not very complete/correct there. This means that making it take the correct/blue roads requires adding some additional via points.
I hope this answers your questions. If not or if you have other questions, I’m happy to help!
Cheers,
Guido
Hi there,
I understand your question.
First of all, what maps to use in MRA -> Open Street Maps. Scenic’s map provider also uses OSM as starting point.
Then, import routes or tracks. It depends. 🙂
Advantage of routes is that Scenic will use the exact route points as you defined them in MRA. This is useful if those route points are actual stops like a restaurant or hotel or gas station. Disadvantage of route is that you are not sure Scenic will calculate the same route between the points (Scenic has a different routing engine/algorithm than MRA and GPX files do not contain info about what routing mode you chose in MRA). Additionally you do not have the blue line when importing a route so it will be more difficult to notice discrepancies between Scenic route and MRA route.
Tracks have the advantage that you see the blue line (exact line indicating route as designed in MRA) so it’s very easy to notice discrepancies (like in your screenshot). But you loose your route points set in MRA.
The reason why these discrepancies happen has to do with Scenic picking key point along the track to feed to the routing engine. This ‘picking’ is done by an algorithm looking at the bends in blue line. For more info on that have a look at this support article and also make sure to visit the blog article that is mentioned in the first point.
Now, about your screenshot, I happen to know this area. I have ridden there a few times when I was still living in Amsterdam. I know that the map data is not very complete/correct there. This means that making it take the correct/blue roads requires adding some additional via points.
I hope this answers your questions. If not or if you have other questions, I’m happy to help!
Cheers,
Guido
Quote from pkleynjan on 31.05.2020, 08:04Wow, super support Guido, and on a Sunday too! Yes, this helps me understand the underlying mechanisms and to work out a path from MRA to Scenic that works for me. (BTW, I also get that that part of the country is very complicated infrastructure-wise.)
Cheers,
-Peter
Wow, super support Guido, and on a Sunday too! Yes, this helps me understand the underlying mechanisms and to work out a path from MRA to Scenic that works for me. (BTW, I also get that that part of the country is very complicated infrastructure-wise.)
Cheers,
-Peter
Quote from Neo9686 on 15.07.2020, 18:07I use MRA too, and used Tyre before. I have the same problem here in Italy where many many roads in the OSM are supposed to be paved but they are not in reality. One question: when you say about importing route or track from the gpx, you do this choice in Scenic from a normal GPX v1.1, right? Or are you suggesting to export directly as a track only file somehow?
Another thing that is strange to me: MRA OSM maps seems to be not identical to the ones in Scenic... Is it possibile that the two versions are different?
I use MRA too, and used Tyre before. I have the same problem here in Italy where many many roads in the OSM are supposed to be paved but they are not in reality. One question: when you say about importing route or track from the gpx, you do this choice in Scenic from a normal GPX v1.1, right? Or are you suggesting to export directly as a track only file somehow?
Another thing that is strange to me: MRA OSM maps seems to be not identical to the ones in Scenic... Is it possibile that the two versions are different?
Quote from Guido on 15.07.2020, 20:09Hi Neo,
...you do this choice in Scenic from a normal GPX v1.1, right? ...
Correct
Another thing that is strange to me: MRA OSM maps seems to be not identical to the ones in Scenic... Is it possibile that the two versions are different?
Yes. Definitely possible. Scenic's map provider uses OSM as a basis, but it's not 100% OSM. They take an extract from OSM 2 times a year and then migrate the OSM data into their own format. In that migration some data gets lost and/or is interpreted in a different way that it was originally intended by OSM. Also they add some data from other (unknown to me) sources. So yes, there can be differences for sure.
Hi Neo,
...you do this choice in Scenic from a normal GPX v1.1, right? ...
Correct
Another thing that is strange to me: MRA OSM maps seems to be not identical to the ones in Scenic... Is it possibile that the two versions are different?
Yes. Definitely possible. Scenic's map provider uses OSM as a basis, but it's not 100% OSM. They take an extract from OSM 2 times a year and then migrate the OSM data into their own format. In that migration some data gets lost and/or is interpreted in a different way that it was originally intended by OSM. Also they add some data from other (unknown to me) sources. So yes, there can be differences for sure.
Quote from Neo9686 on 15.07.2020, 20:29Thank you Guido. Another related question: since we will import exactly the track from the GPX file we already calculated on MRA, it is relatively useless to add too many points on MRA, right? They will be substantially overwritten by Scenic's algorithm, am I right? I am asking this because until now I was creating circular routes of 400/450 km with almost 100 points, then converting them on scenic in waypoints to reduce the number of audio notifications, and was planning to increase the number to avoid the problem I was talking before. If all of this is correct, it is way easier to both create the route on MRA (minimum number or points needed) and check it once imported on scenic (for both the problems I had that were forcing me to check all the route all over again piece by piece without a "correct" blue line) and just add the actual stops we lose in the transition on top of the waypoints it will automatically create. Pretty good actually!
Thank you Guido. Another related question: since we will import exactly the track from the GPX file we already calculated on MRA, it is relatively useless to add too many points on MRA, right? They will be substantially overwritten by Scenic's algorithm, am I right? I am asking this because until now I was creating circular routes of 400/450 km with almost 100 points, then converting them on scenic in waypoints to reduce the number of audio notifications, and was planning to increase the number to avoid the problem I was talking before. If all of this is correct, it is way easier to both create the route on MRA (minimum number or points needed) and check it once imported on scenic (for both the problems I had that were forcing me to check all the route all over again piece by piece without a "correct" blue line) and just add the actual stops we lose in the transition on top of the waypoints it will automatically create. Pretty good actually!
Quote from Guido on 15.07.2020, 20:46Yes. If you import the track it indeed makes no sense to add more points in MRA.
If you import the route it’s actually better to have the least amount of points as possible in MRA, because each point is a potential reason to create an unintended ‘strange loop’.
if not already seen have a look here for more info on this: https://scenic.app/knowledge-base/strange-loops-while-importing/
Yes. If you import the track it indeed makes no sense to add more points in MRA.
If you import the route it’s actually better to have the least amount of points as possible in MRA, because each point is a potential reason to create an unintended ‘strange loop’.
if not already seen have a look here for more info on this: https://scenic.app/knowledge-base/strange-loops-while-importing/
